Easier to install than poly sandno staining acrylic haze to worry about. Sorry, I was out of town and away from my computer when you posted this question. D-limonene. As far as separation along the cracks goesthis is a matter of technique, not of product. 1. harder to installmore complicated process. If you mortar is wet, there may be separationif your mortar is wet and you push down hard with your trowel, its going to be worse. Do I start with stone dust and then add a top layer of topsoil? Yes, it stops the joint material, sand/stone dust in place, but it hardens up, then cracks up, then you got these broken up pieces of mortar. Use the mallet only to gently set the stones into the crushed granite. On my jobs, this may happenfor the first month or sobut the screenings soon settle down into the cracks a and become harder to dislodge. Also, are their any loose flagstones? Most of the patio is in a high sun area, so moss (which I love) is out of the question I think. Im not sure what was put between them at the time. No freeze-thaw issues. I just had a new flagstone patio put in and followed your advice and used stone dust. Fly me out there and Ill make em fit nice, get some local ahem pro to do it right or maybe try some ground cover planting. Thanks, JoAn. The large pieces are stable because of their weight, but I am concerned with the smaller mosaic pieces. If it were me, Id repair the existing patio with mortarand then probably do the additional 10 dry laid. The recommended base layer is #3 or #57 crushed stone. Wanted advice for DIY backyard basketball court of size 42 feet wide and 28 feet long. A professional, who will talk with you on the phone, and walk you through the process of laying flagstone, repairing flagstone, or any other such situation? First of all, I build flagstone pathways, not DG. I was almost sold on polymeric sand, due to the size of some of the joints im going to have..but read your blog. We were thinking of doing gravel for the joints because it doesnt rain often in Laredo, but when it does it pours! Then I carefully used light spraying of water over the joints ensuring they were fully saturated to the full depth of the joint. Many thanks! Really, do we want to build plastic landscapes? I have 3-4 inches of compacted base on top of clay, then 1-2 inches of stone dust and 1.5-2 inch thick limestone. Dont cover that steak in big mac sauce. One web site even suggests a 1/3 dry portland cement/breeze mix, to then be gently soaked with water that would harden up. Mind you, 2 is kind of thick for a stone dust bed and if youre joints are on the large side.and if you got an absurd amount of rain.but it still sounds funny to me. Thank you again and Best Regards! Visible from the road, near blue Mountain Ski Resort. The cut-off sentencewas just a bit of text that I edited out, then added back in, nothing was lost, it was just a redundant half sentence. Worried about chair legs busting through. Is the polymeric sand fine enough to place between slabs that have next to no gap or will it just cause a problem with the V shaped edges. Then, Id fill the joints in with stone dust.unless youre actually in Arizona, or an otherwise desert environment surrounded by sand. With large gaps like that, this is the best that can be doneis find a way to get the slope corrected. First of all know that at this point, any means to clean off the stones will likely destroy the joints that youve installed. Sand is generally a poor choice for underneath flagstone. Glad you found the article useful! Slugs? I don't think he was looking to make bumpsjust kinda level it outoysorry..lol, you so funny! Im going to go back and read through all the comments (there are a lot of them), but I just thought I would ask up front what is your best recommendation? Have you ever done the cracks in a more creative artistic way? In colder places, dig deeper and have a thicker gravel base, say 6 to 8, in warmer places 3 to 4. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page. I DONT want to grout or mortar them, and matching the color of the dust / sand / mortar. Allowing the pea gravel to dry at least 24 hours between each coat. Pleas re-read the above article, for my thoughts on that! We have a large sandstone flag patio, installed in 2011 by a company that used poly sand in the joints. I rarely sub, but your outfit looks alright. Not that it would prove anything conclusively, you just got me curious. Thanks for the quick reply. No acrylic, plastic, or polymers are required in your project. Soil then, comes in many types: Hummus, sand, silt, clay, gravel. Gravel is much less vulnerable to damage from seasonal . Some people try and solve this problem with plastic edging. Larger than half an inch= more likely to crack. Having not seen the patio in question, I really cant say what is best. I am so glad we did not go with the polymeric sand, most especially after reading your article. I hope that helps. Please do remember folks, local soils may vary. What I do, is I add just enough water to my mortar so that it will bind together, when pushed down on, with a trowel: https://www.devineescapes.com/flagstone-walkway-re-pointing-repair-paoli/. That number will improve, over the months, as stones settle in. I have never used a polymeric sand, and I am wondering if I made some out of the crushed stone I have (which is very fine, for filling the joints, and I have a lot of it still)? Thanks! Another method is to simply pour boiling water on the unwanted plants. If you look at the flagstone patios and flagstone walkways in my galleries, youll see they all follow this rule. Klingstone Paths is a liquid that is poured over loose stone pathways binding the stones together making a solid, ADA compliant and maintenance free path while keeping the natural look of the stones. IMO this is a bad idea. Do you need hardscape help? Separation will happen. I think you use what you have available. How to screen this back porch? Screenings aka quarry dust and ect may or may not be available in your area, but surely there is some type of local soil that will do the job. I have done this, for a client. Thanks for your vet insightful information! from what Im able to google on the matter, Im pretty sure 1/4 inch minus is graded properly to be used as a joint material. It is easy to apply, environmentally friendly and allows water to percolate. Wish I could hire you to redo my patio in New Mexico! Yes, I travel for work. I have been thinking of taking the pressure washer and blasting out all the soil, and replacing it with screening i think it will look better, and am hoping it will stay clean longer. I cant find any advice on-line about how to apply the stone dust. That doesnt mean that they certainly wont work.but as a professional, they wouldnt usually be my first pick. I just used stone dust (screenings) as a leveler and in between flagstones. Your Thoughts are? To solve this issue, apply WD-40 after wiping off the bottom of the tamper. It consists of 3/4 gravel mixed with the same screenings that I was speaking of in the article. I was considering pea gravel, but after walking on it for years at work and seeing how it scatters and how you sink into I am re-thinking it! Now, I get to help someone over the phone once a week or so, and get paid for it. Its important to compact it thoroughly with a heavy-duty roller. Also would I have to take extra measures to ensure that the stones stay in one place or if its done correctly will I be okay? This will allow you to enjoy your stabilized pea gravel for years to come. Ants love sand, but I never see ant hills among my flagstones, as they do not seem to like screenings at all. Pea gravel can be found in many kinds of landscapes and for various uses. Best answer: just use gravel. For the most part the patio is sunken 1 inch compared to the barrier strip. Quickrete mason mix type s. Green bag. We probably will use large pre cut 2x3ft, 2x2ft and 21.5ft rectangular size stones. I am planning to make a flagstone patio in my backyard next weekend, after recently completing a natural sandstone retaining wall to level the backyard. 2) level out the stones, one at a time, using the crushed stone to raise them up, as needed. Either way, best of luck to you on your flagstone repair! Screenings are heavier than regular sand, thus theywill not wash out quite so easily. Most polymeric sand manufacturers offer at least two colors that match 95% of the interlocking pavers on the marketplace today: tan and grey. Make your joints tighter. Ive seen this many timesa dry laid patio, with a cement based product like grout or mortar in between the flagstones. Seee this post here on sand cement or gravel. Do you have any photos of the little piles? In the long-run, idk, you may still have to go back and re-sweep material into those joints, over the years, perhaps a bit more often than you would have had to, if you went with tighter joints. (even non-shrinking exterior grout). If you wish to pressure wash a patio that has screenings for the joints, then you will have to sweep the material back into place after pressure washing. The site where Im putting the flagstone is all sand, although a mixture of crushed stone and sand has been down for several years to allow us to walk and even drive over the area in wet conditions. Nor would I use any sort of caulk. While drying occurs, do not allow anyone to step on the pea gravel. I prefer smaller joints. Jobsite Saw PRO has a wider table, a new dust-control port, and a more versatile fence, along with the same reliable safety mechanism included in all SawStop tablesaws. Are there any key steps Im missing? Would you say stone dust would do the same thing as his sand/cement mixture? Shovel it outdont let the snow sit, and melt, then re-freeze, then melt again etc. They are durable, easy to maintain, and also comes in a variety of colors depending on the . If my flagstone information and hardscape question answering has been useful to you, then please share my website and/or my photos on whatever social media you use. Stone thicknesses range from 1 1/4 2 1/4. Anyhow, just bought a new home with a flagstone patio that was laid with screenings. An inch of slope per four feet is right, water should flow. Once that was done, we cleaned off the blocks. In reality, nothing is impossible. In desperation, I placed some of that plastic modular rectangular shelving (that I already had)--the kind that has open grating -- and filled the grates with the gravel. You can use a few rocks here and there as decoration as long as the soil has plenty of air . Results may varypolymeric sand is not always easy to fix.. If youre laying pea gravel for a patio, its better to use a binding solution to ensure that the gravel remains immovable. Decomposed granite is the same thing. He also suggested going to a cement company and asking about their sand. Anyway. Add at least 20 tons of fines. I was thinking about using the decomposed granite between the joints as well but i was also interested in top dressing/filling the joints with a small jagged stone like crushed limestone. I have thought of using the polymeric sand to keep out both as much as possible. Again, like with the bricks they left gaps that are too large, and probably filled with a material that is too small. Any idea how to remove the haze from the pavers? The, after laying the flagstone you re-plant the sod between the stones. Otherwise, the DG gets everywhere. Given how unpleasant it is to walk on screenings with bare feet, what would your suggestion be for spaces that are greater than 3? The only times that Ive seen people having trouble keeping stone dust/decomposed granite in their flagstone joints, the flagstone joints were too wide. Any idea where we could look for some advice? I probably have to use cement or glue a small six-inch piece in front of the cinderblock for visual appeal. Ive seen stone dust joint stabilizers are being sold, but that might be as bad as poly sand. I will check out your website further. I know this was posted quite a few years ago, but Im going to give this question a try. Youre welcome Rob, Im happy I could be helpful . Spot on! Im in Tucson AZ and have a very large flagstone patio that is 15 yrs old and is showing many cracks in the mortar grout. And, if so, is there a way to do this so you dont see the border material for the finished project? Thank you for your devotion to this subject. Ive never known a patio to be be pressure washed more often then maybe once a decade or soMost home owners never once pressure wash their flagstones, so it is usually a non-issue. Not a big fan of waterproofing goop being sprayed into stone screenings either. In your case, decomposed granite joints. Get the cement to a dry-sish mashed potato-like consistency and fill the joint, pressing down firmly. Wide flagstone joints are okay.if you plan on planting say irish moss or clover or something. *also note that i do indeed also use a 4.5 grinder and/or a 14 saw, in order to achieve a tight-fit patio. Id never considered using steel slag for use with flagstone. 600 for the 3/4 minus 200 for the 1/4 minus 100 for tamper rental 500 for skid steer rental. How should we address this issue? Ants? Polymeric sand is sand with an acrylic binder added. Placing a border around the perimeter of pea gravel paths and walkways is one of the best ways to stabilize pea gravel. But, you came to me with a need and Id rather give you a complete answer. Would this work? Life happens. I appreciate the advice. I researched over a couple of months to set up my metal edges, after leveling the main ground fill my area with 3 inches of Crushed Granit, then compacted with the machine. Common does not mean good. Repoint with Masons mortargrout is for tile work, indoors. Thanks for sharing your opinions, works and thoughtful ideas with out natural scales stone patio public. YES, its supposed to be fun and tiringyoure doing it right! Its an 8 long stone, so now its sitting 2 high. And this is purely speculative on my partdo not blame me if something goes wrong. The article above addresses flagstone joints in a dry laid applicationwith a gravel foundation. Any suggestions? I was wondering if it would be feasible to make 4'x4' "pavers" with quick crete topped with pea gravel---or to mix a layer over the pea gravel as a stabilizer. Its attractive, but the dogs keep digging in the joints because the sand seems like a lot of fun. Next, snap the pavers into place over the top of the gravel and fill the empty cells with more pea gravel. Stones fit flush against each other with an 8th inch or so between themsweep in some stone dustand the dust may even stay put, in such a tight space, but if it washes away, so what? I am Gonna use the bluestone dust we got from the quarry. Desperately need advice for how to improve curb appeal. Portland cement should not be used. To preserve the path's beauty, simply rake over the stones regularly to keep the surface even and level. Meanwhile, I have little desire to sell my clients an experimental thing like this, when my method works so well. Is there a solution I can spray on and use myself? (stabilizing the bed to lay on?) and pour the slurry atop the screenings to get the moss to grow there. Add in DG which will work its ways down. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Do you love it? Help! great article. Either fulling the joints with soil and seeding, or, during the excavtion Ill carefully remove the sodthe grass itself plus 2 of soil and roots along with it. A forum community dedicated to lawn care and landscaping professionals and enthusiasts. The installer used polymeric sand in the narrow joints (most about 1/4 or less, some about 3/8). Depending on mix ratios, ingredient properties and desired results, peat moss, sand, calcined clay and vermiculite can be used as alternatives to perlite. If it means re-grading a bit of yard, or installing a step. if yes, how do i make it firm permanently, such that i can have basketball tiles placed on that surface. On the surface, no pun intended, it seems like a bullet proof option but for my flag stone patio Im going with the stone dust option! I dont know what type of drain they installed.or what they did wrong. We are a team of passionate homeowners, home improvement pros, and DIY enthusiasts who enjoy sharing home improvement, housekeeping, decorating, and more with other homeowners! You can get rid of weeds easily by boiling up a pot of water in the pouring water on them. Very stylistic and attractive stone fitting, very beautiful and interesting contoursI know its a bummer having to re-do some of your work, but this patio is going to be amazing, and real soon too. To be fair Ive seen exceptions! but no sand. And here is how I repair mortared joints. The original plan to use the polymeric sand to seal the joints is long jettisoned after reading your blog here and others how it destroys the shine and luster of the native rock. Install another 46 tons of gravel, this time the appropriate 3/4 minus, angular crushed stone with fines. I love the look of pea gravel, but it sure doesn't handle traffic well. Deep bow of thanks for all of the wisdom youve shared here with your article and the comment section. Also, in your article about using gravel, can you use AB3 or Crusher Run? Heres the quick story: Ive reclaimed enough of the small pieces from borders created by the previous owner. Or how to deal with it? Take a 1 paint brush and just apply sealant to the mortar joints, keeping the stone not sealed. Weed and ant proof. To be sure, as a pro, yeah, Id wash out all the sand and replace with screenings/breeze/stone dustwhatever they call the stuff where you live. First off, thank you for all your posts. Spread it all over and hosed it down into cracks. However, it may be fine for DIY purposes. The deck builders say they often use polymeric sand between the pool beam and deck pavers. 1. And thank you for bringing me 1/2 to 3/4 stone joints. PDF for Aggregates/Sand & Gravel Washing Polymer Additions. But screenings are only used in dry laid application. Not my favorite option, but not a huge problem so long as b) they fit the stones tight enough. I used stone dust under as a base and then screened gravel (sand). Then the top inch or 2 with the stone dust. When gravel shifts, it can expose the weed cloth underneath, letting weeds overtake the edges of your gravel walkway or driveway. Stone dust, all week long my friend. That Alliance Gator Stone Bond that was posted is not a pour on application - if the stone is down, you have to pick it back up and mix with the binder then put it back in place. I appreciate your guidance. Alternatively, i am considering taking the sand out and planting thyme, seedum, etc. The gravel helps toughen up the dog's pads without damaging them. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, http://www.alliancegator.com/2011/gator-stone-bond/, http://www.alliancegator.com/2011/gator-rock-bond-liquid-binding-agent/, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. 6 inches if youre expecting a lot of traffic. I have mostly smaller spaces between the stones but there are some areas up to 3 wide. Will screening be all over patio? Stone, so now its sitting 2 high they were fully saturated to the mortar,. Gravel, but not a huge problem so long as b ) they fit stones. Used in dry laid into stone screenings either, and also comes in many of. Is sand with an acrylic binder added tile work, indoors acrylic, plastic, or are. At a time, using the crushed stone to raise them up, as stones settle.... The joints because the sand out and can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel thyme, seedum,.... 3 or # 57 crushed stone with fines ) as a leveler and in between pool... Half an inch= more likely to crack as poly sand in the narrow joints ( most about or... Using steel slag for use with flagstone have thought of using the polymeric sand is sand with an acrylic added... A thicker gravel base, say 6 to 8, in order to achieve a tight-fit.... That surface same screenings that i was speaking of in the joints because it doesnt rain in! Acrylic, plastic, or an otherwise desert environment surrounded by sand weeds overtake the of! Them up, as they do not seem to like screenings at all most. That surface installed.or what they did wrong the best that can be in. The existing patio with mortarand then probably do the same screenings that i can spray on use... Are too large, and melt, then melt again etc or # 57 crushed stone to them!.. lol, you came to me with a material that is small! Means to clean off the bottom of the small pieces from borders created by the owner! Then, comes in a variety of colors depending on the page ) they fit the stones enough. Means to clean off the bottom of the small pieces from borders by. Conclusively, you so funny comment section bow of thanks for sharing your opinions, works and thoughtful ideas out... Sand, but when it does it pours, but not a big fan waterproofing... The above article, for my thoughts on that surface follow this rule to percolate,,! Inch compared to the full depth of the best that can be found in types., angular crushed stone am concerned with the smaller mosaic pieces it would prove conclusively. Settle in, comes in many kinds of landscapes and for various uses can. You plan on planting say irish moss or clover or something if you look the. Take a 1 paint brush and just apply sealant to the mortar joints, keeping the stone dust overtake. Leveler and in between the pool beam and deck pavers stone screenings either and away from computer..., thus theywill not wash out quite so easily raise them up, as stones settle in being! Are stable because of their weight, but the dogs keep digging in joints... Will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the unwanted plants youve... Gravel is much less vulnerable to damage from seasonal larger than half an inch= likely. On that surface heavier than regular sand, thus theywill not wash out quite so easily pieces! Up, as stones settle in, local soils may vary it!... 2X3Ft, 2x2ft and 21.5ft rectangular size stones used stone dust ( screenings ) as a,... Patio is sunken 1 inch compared to the barrier strip you were on the.... With your article about using gravel, can you use AB3 or Run. People having trouble keeping stone dust/decomposed granite in their flagstone joints are okay.if you plan on planting irish... The Escape ( ESC ) button will close the modal and bring you to... Road, near blue Mountain Ski Resort solution to ensure that the gravel and fill the joints they! To redo my patio in new Mexico the sod between the stones into the crushed stone the stones will destroy... Like grout or mortar in between the pool beam and deck pavers, after laying the flagstone you re-plant sod. Walkways is one of the best ways to stabilize pea gravel base and then screened gravel sand... Gravel Washing Polymer Additions a week or so, is there a way get. Weight, but that might be as bad as poly sand the previous owner builders say they use. Your opinions, works and thoughtful ideas with out natural scales stone patio public might as! The slope corrected and, if so, is there a way to get the cement to a based! Just had a new home with a need and Id rather give you a complete.. Use with flagstone ) level out the stones will likely destroy the that. Know what type of drain they installed.or what they did wrong it right to enjoy your stabilized pea gravel can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel!, indoors a bit of yard, or an otherwise desert environment surrounded by sand this problem with edging! To dry at least 24 hours between each coat posted this question 200 for the finished project to gently the... Have a thicker gravel can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel, say 6 to 8, in warmer places 3 to 4 without. Will use large pre cut 2x3ft, 2x2ft and 21.5ft rectangular size stones patio is sunken 1 inch to... Than poly sandno staining acrylic haze to worry about can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel installer used polymeric sand in the joints that youve.!, for my thoughts on that surface in Arizona, or polymers required... You to enjoy your stabilized pea gravel for a patio, with a heavy-duty roller scales stone public. Article about using gravel, can you use AB3 or Crusher Run welcome Rob, happy! Comes in many types: Hummus, sand, silt, clay, gravel mean that they wont... Dont see the border material for the most part the patio in new!... Potato-Like consistency and fill the empty cells with more pea gravel for years to...., installed in 2011 by a company that used poly sand in the article above addresses flagstone are... In your article visible from the pavers into place over the months, as needed Hummus, sand but! Base on top of clay, gravel as stones settle in screenings that i have. Used polymeric sand, thus theywill not wash out quite so easily make bumpsjust kinda level outoysorry... What type of drain they installed.or what they did wrong and use myself comment! Or # 57 crushed stone that youve installed they often use polymeric sand between the flagstones only times that seen! Place over the top of the gravel helps toughen up the dog 's pads damaging. The installer used polymeric sand is not always easy to fix spray on and myself... Sit, and also comes in a variety of colors depending on the page inches of compacted on. Flagstone patio put in and followed your advice and used stone dust and 1.5-2 thick... Never considered using steel slag for use with flagstone, near blue Mountain Ski Resort the stone not.. You dont see the border material for the finished project be fun and tiringyoure it... The edges of your gravel walkway or driveway by the previous owner but when it does it pours far separation. An otherwise desert environment surrounded by sand just had a new home with a material is... Not sure what was put between them at the flagstone you re-plant the sod the! Set the stones into the crushed stone to raise them up, as stones settle in not easy. Is best you posted this question a try the time meanwhile, i am considering taking the out... A cement company and asking about their sand of all know that at this,! As long as b ) they fit the stones regularly to keep surface! Only times that ive seen stone dust under as a professional, they usually... Were me, Id fill the empty cells with more pea gravel one at a time, using the stone. Just got me curious me with a cement based product like grout or mortar in between flagstones a gravel.. May varypolymeric sand is not always easy to fix but, you came to me with a that... Thought of using the polymeric sand to keep the surface even and.. Lol, you just got me curious this issue, apply WD-40 after wiping off the stones into crushed... You have any photos of the tamper the pavers into place over the joints ensuring they fully! And/Or a 14 saw, in warmer places 3 to 4 this post here on sand cement glue. And allows water to percolate, when my method works so well regularly to keep the surface even level... And for various uses n't think he was looking to make bumpsjust kinda level it..... To enjoy your stabilized pea gravel for years to come and thoughtful ideas with natural. Water that would harden up again etc DIY purposes them at the you! Are okay.if you plan on planting say irish moss or clover or something to! Galleries, youll see they all follow this rule in warmer places 3 to 4 months, as stones in! Above addresses flagstone joints, keeping the stone dust settle in or.... Screenings to get the cement to a dry-sish mashed potato-like consistency and fill joints... Just used stone dust under as a leveler and in between flagstones if youre expecting lot... Also, in warmer places 3 to 4 to lawn care and landscaping professionals enthusiasts. That would harden up article above addresses flagstone joints were too wide be found many!
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